Major head story

[whitespider]

Hi folks- sorry if this is a long one, but may be of some interest.

I have 92 SSRX. Head went in January.
Bought new head and bits from Head Centre Cornwall.
Bought new thermo, radiator and had T belt changed.
Garage fitted all parts in Feb.
Two weeks later, heading for the mountains, on A9 doing 60 loud ticking noise from engine, blue smoke from tailpipe.
Noise was rhythmic and coming from the upper engine, ie the head.
RAC guy picked me up- he believed it was injectors loose.

Garage opened her up and found the head had 3 loose injector chambers.
Sent head back to Head Centre under warranty.

They checked it and said it was warped. They also said the warranty would not stand and I would have to buy another one.
They sighted possible poor fitting, leaks undetected, viscous fan may be faulty, block may be warped.
Garage said- block was fine, all fans worked perfectly, no pressure in system, no leaks, no visible signs of water escape, no overheating and thirty years of experience fitting heads.

Its now April and I am having to accept the head back, skimmed with oversize chambers fitted, head sundries and labour all at my expense.

My problem is how can a head warp when there is no sign, nor reason for overheating, not even pressure in rad top hose.

Please, when buying a new head realise that there is no warranty on it, despite what is said, even if you do fit a new rad.

It may also be of interest that the guy at Head Centre said he cringes everytime he sells a surf head as a lot of the blocks on these are u/s!!!?

There are a lot of issues here, and I am still waiting on the head to show up, so I cannot say anything too derogatory about anyone. I just want a car that works!

Please, anyone thinking of buying a surf, get good advice and if possible buy one with history.
Its a shame because I really liked the surf, the body shape is perfect for what I needed and the surfs ability off road was a key buying point, but I have ran Landies for 14 years and decided to opt for a surf for a change. So far it has been a total nightmare.
Hate to be another whinger, but I cannot believe this is really happening.

Anyway, just look out for warranties and if you do buy a new head beware.

I'm off for another whisky. Will let people know what is the final outcome.
Ronnie

[stara]

or buy a 3.0l

[Andy W]

Avoid the 2.4's like the plauge, they seem to be inherantly a very weak engine. Mines going and i'm getting a 3ltr, just can't trust or rely on it !

[TonyN]

Sounds like the garage and the head center should be argueing it out between themselves.

One or the other is at fault, you shouldn't be picking up the bill.

My money is on the head center, once someone starts wheeling out the excuses like "said he cringes everytime he sells a surf head as a lot of the blocks on these are u/s" Thats just a cop out. The garage said the block was fine so one place or the other has ballsed up.

Most blocks are OK, running to long with split gasket leaking water into the bore will damage the top of the bore over time, but this is true with any engine.

[Koi]

Agree with Tony on this one, several people have had heads from this place and none have reported the trouble who have. Either the garage or supplier is at fault, I can see it being a tricky one to find which one. Garage will say all was well as they don't want to pick up the tab for a replacement and vice versa for the supplier.
I would suggest to both if they don't come up with a suitable solution you will contact trading standards.

As for the comment on avoid them like the plague, the engine is infact a very strong engine. Its virtually the same engine fitted in UK Hilux's, which we all know go on for several hundred thousand miles and you drown them, set fire to them and drop them from tall buildings.
It was a design fault on a batch of heads, not the complete engine see the poll, 80% no problems. Ask the guys on here who have had their motors for several years now.

[Guest]

I agree with Tony and Nigel.

The 2.4 Diesel and it's variants are one of the most used engines ever. It's a very strong reliable design that for a short time had a problem with the design on some of the heads. The bottom end is pretty bulletproof allowing very high mileages without major work. Bear in mind that this engine is used in a lot of commercial vehicles which suffer a very hard life and don't always get looked after.

Examples of motors that this is in:

Hiace tipper
Hilux Pickup
Early landcruiser
Surf

All these motors get used and abused in some of the most difficult circumstances and also in some areas of the world where Sand, Heat, High Humidity, distance etc son't exactly help the reliability of engines.

Talking with Bundubasher, in Africa the 2.4 is the preferred engine as the 3.0 has insufficient cooling for it's heat output.

I think that we have all conspired somewhat to give a bad impression of what is in essence an excellent engine, certainly with less inherrant problems than the Diesels in Landrovers which have head, Turbo and bottom end problems - no-one really questions those though.

With regard to issues with product or installation quality, warranty is not the only thing that is relevant here.

The 1982 Goods and Services act covers this area and states that products and services supplied should be of merchantable quality and should be performed to an adequate standard. A warranty is not the final say and failure of an item in less than a year is certainly a case of the product or the installation being not up to scratch. If the garage got the head from the head centre rather than you, then the head centre is their subcontractor and it is their responsibility to work out a solution to the problem. You can mention the act to them and state a reasonable timeframe for it to be resolved, they then need to go and solve the issue with their supplier. You can also proceed through the small claims court or get a solicitor to write a letter.

Here is a link to a summary of the act.

http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/m...20Services.pdf

Cheers

[gemini]

Avoid the 2.4's like the plauge, they seem to be inherantly a very weak engine.

i take it your tea wasnt on the table when you come in and wrote that, i hope you have a good write up to back it up, these engines are 12 years old and maintenance on a 12 year old engine is expected but that statement just writes the 2.4's off completely, and i for one being the owner of a 2.4 wont sit by and not reply to a useless statement like that, all these motors are different some have had a harder life than the others, some heads have failed some havent, some have actually caused the head to crack as we know from wibblywobblys post a few weeks ago, his was fine when he took it in to a garage, they changed the coolant didnt get the airlock out and the head cracked, but it would on any other engine if there was no water in the head due to an airlock

[marky]

Avoid the 2.4's like the plauge, they seem to be inherantly a very weak engine.

i take it your tea wasnt on the table when you come in and wrote that, i hope you have a good write up to back it up, these engines are 12 years old and maintenance on a 12 year old engine is expected but that statement just writes the 2.4's off completely, and i for one being the owner of a 2.4 wont sit by and not reply to a useless statement like that, all these motors are different some have had a harder life than the others, some heads have failed some havent, some have actually caused the head to crack as we know from wibblywobblys post a few weeks ago, his was fine when he took it in to a garage, they changed the coolant didnt get the airlock out and the head cracked, but it would on any other engine if there was no water in the head due to an airlock

here here!
12 months on & im still smiling. i check the baby out every weekend just to make sure all fluids are fine. she's good offroad & tows the caravan a dream so the 2.4 shouldnt be tarred with the same brush.

[Sewerat]

Ian & Marky You tell him boys.


Sewerat Bob

[whitespider]

Thanks for the helpful comments, as always it shows that this web site is seriously excellent!!!!

I did not put the note about "avoid the 2.4 like the plague" but those who chose to slag this guy off should ask themselves how would you feel after running 4x4s for nearly twenty years, buy a surf for £4000 because the Hilux is "seriously reliable" own it for 5 months and do less than 2000 miles in it. It costs you thousands to maintain, you require it for work and the thing costs you money instead of earning you money. It spends more time in garage than in your drive. Heads, rear window, steering drift, soggy brakes, blah blah blah.

I really like the surf and the times I have needed it it has performed well. But everybody has different experiences, those that have trouble free motoring are gonna say its the best, and those that have problems, the opposite.

I just view it that I have been unlucky, and I will probably persevere until I get the surf I need. But to all those that think that someone having bad experiences then telling other about it on this forum are somehow being disloyal ought to go and seek medical help. Its cool to be into something but its sad to totaly believe in it. It is just a 4x4 after all. Some people ought to chill out a bit and pray it doesn't happen to them!!!

Thanks again to Tony, Koi and Andy, top gen as always.

Keep the faith but ditch the religion!!!!!
Ronnie

[Koi]

I think it was just the comment of avoid them like the plague and the fact the engines are weak that people didn't like.
As said the other than the batch of poorly designed heads the engine is strong and reliable. No getting away from the fact the bad design on a batch of heads is a pain in the a*** but to say the whole engine is weak was probably a bit strong. To label the whole engine like that is not fair, thats all.
My head went after a year and as said many times before I would buy another 2.4, after taking it off road, a couple of trips to Sunderland & Yorkshire its great, comfortable and a joy to drive.

[marky]

I think any comments made towards the 2.4 head problem should now be banned as a matter of principal. some members need to sell there surf for other reasons. but this topic does'nt help in doing so and its not fair.

[Guest]

Thanks for the helpful comments, as always it shows that this web site is seriously excellent!!!!

I did not put the note about "avoid the 2.4 like the plague" but those who chose to slag this guy off should ask themselves how would you feel after running 4x4s for nearly twenty years, buy a surf for £4000 because the Hilux is "seriously reliable" own it for 5 months and do less than 2000 miles in it. It costs you thousands to maintain, you require it for work and the thing costs you money instead of earning you money. It spends more time in garage than in your drive. Heads, rear window, steering drift, soggy brakes, blah blah blah.

I really like the surf and the times I have needed it it has performed well. But everybody has different experiences, those that have trouble free motoring are gonna say its the best, and those that have problems, the opposite.

I just view it that I have been unlucky, and I will probably persevere until I get the surf I need. But to all those that think that someone having bad experiences then telling other about it on this forum are somehow being disloyal ought to go and seek medical help. Its cool to be into something but its sad to totaly believe in it. It is just a 4x4 after all. Some people ought to chill out a bit and pray it doesn't happen to them!!!

Thanks again to Tony, Koi and Andy, top gen as always.

Keep the faith but ditch the religion!!!!!
Ronnie

I totaly agree - lets not be anoraks about this, however lets also not generalise.

I have had some good reliable cars and some unreliable ones too. I had a really unreliable Ford Galaxy and a really reliable Rover Montego - go figure.

I think that you have been very unlucky. Apart from the head, mine hasn't really missed a beat, others have had more problems and some have had less.

It just doesn't do to generalise that all 2.4s are bad 3.0s are good, like saying all Landies are good - some are very bad.

I just don't want people to get the wrong idea that just cos there are a lot of posts about head problems, the 2.4 is a dog with really big fleas, it isn't.

As we have said, 80% of 2.4 owners who voted had no problems with the head, so it can't be all bad. If we start to generalise we may put people off owning a Surf, especially if a 2.4 is all they can afford. They may go on to buy something else that could be the most relaible car in the world or a complete Dog - you end up being lucky or not even if you really do your homework.

I'm sorry for those owners who have had problems (especially me) but I still think intrinsically the 2.4 is a good motor.

Cheers

[marky]

Can we now put this discussion to sleep. as being a 2.4 owner its getting boring now

[Jimmus]

im new to the world of surf and i dont wanna judge them all,i guess its 50 50 with the 2.4's.there's goodens and there's baddens.
3 weeks ago i bought a 1992 2.4ssr. i paid £3500 for it from some pikey dealer.it was all i could afford and i chose it over the mitsubishi shogun cos it looks better.it needs a new backbox,its leaking water from the water pump (i think),central locking dont work,it smokes like nothing i've seen (in the morning) and every now and then i hear a knocking noise like topend,maybe cam..apart from that its a nice drive with plenty of grunt and looks nice on my drive.yes i know its 12 years old and cars that age need tlc,i just wish the person b4 me gave it some.
i might add that all this will not put me off remortgageing my house and buying a newer one,so dont be put off by my ranting,im sure there are plenty of goodens out there.i really hope this surf dont float cos im pushing it in the thames