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Old 21st August 2008, 23:27   #1
ro80rob
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Default Pre-heat/glow plugs timer question for 92 2.4 turbo D

Maybe somebody can help me here.

I have a problem with lumpy idle/no power just after startup. This condition lasts only for about 30 secs, but then goes away and the car drives fine after that. Now its summer (though at the moment that means that the rain is warmer) in Blitey, and I worry what it will be like as the days turn cooler.

So

I have done a little research and I will tell you what I have checked.

Individually tested top glow plugs resistance OK (all less than 1 Ohm)

Struggled to check the glow plug resistor (manifold heater) so not sure that is OK but read on.

Checked for volts being applied to the top plugs, OK. A period of 11 Volts followed by a longer period with lower volts (doesn't that mean the glow plug resistor is OK since it goes in series for the afterglow period with the top plugs).

My question is about the temperature sensor screwed into the block below the rearmost inlet manifold junction. The book talks about testing it and it shows (in the Haynes) somebody using an Ohm meter on it. However, they are having a laugh since its nigh on impossible to get at.

However

This sensor must be cabled back to the heater timer control relay in the saloon (isn't it?), so surely I should be able to measure it from there.

But

There is no circuit diagram with the timer relay (though the Haynes manual does show some fault finding/testing).

so

Does anyone have a circuit diagram for the full pre-heat system, or at least knows what the connections are for the multiplug that goes onto the timer relay. Oh and just for fun, the Haynes shows 3 variants on the timer relays.
Anyway my car is a 92 2.4 ssrx Turbo D.

Cheers... Rob.
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Old 21st August 2008, 23:36   #2
BUSHWHACKER
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You could have dribbly injectors. (Not spraying properly so they're dribbling into a cold engine and the glowplugs can't heat the fuel sufficiently)

Try some injector cleaner in the tank or better still, the next time you re-new the fuel filter, fill it with injector cleaner before re-fitting.
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Old 22nd August 2008, 00:15   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ro80rob View Post
This sensor must be cabled back to the heater timer control relay in the saloon (isn't it?), so surely I should be able to measure it from there.
The Coolant sensor is connected to THW and E2 of the ECU. I suppose resistance could be checked from there, providing the wiring to the sensor is ok. If doing it this way then I guess it would need checking cold and at various stages of engine warm up.

http://www.offroadpakistan.com/downl...hermistors.pdf

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Old 23rd August 2008, 17:39   #4
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Out of interest, are you by any chance running on cooking oil? I had exactly the same symptoms on cooking oil. Biodiesel is ok as is ordinary diesel of course, but I get the same symptoms with any more than about 15% cooking oil. Ironically, if I add some bio diesel it seems a lot better on cooking oil and will run a much higher amount of cooking oil without a problem.
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Old 27th August 2008, 22:15   #5
ro80rob
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OK

A little further discussion on this if you please.

I haven't looked into the dribbly injector question yet, so that is still out there as a possible.

That aside..

The thing starts perfectly. If I wait for the light to go out, or the buzzer to sound, it starts just the same. A1 first turn.

But..

The length of time the heater light comes on for is definitely shorter than it was, though if I check with my DVM, the juice stays on high (11V) for several seconds more, then drops to a lower level after a click is heard. The buzzer sounds a little later on still, but the juice remains on the heaters. Oh and I checked all the heaters and connection. All are fine.

Questions are:-
Can the heaters stay on too long?

I'm not sure if the information found at the link given by 'NiftyNev' is for the petrol engined cars as a number of the drawings in my 'Haynes Toyota Hilux & 4-Runner (Diesel)' manual show this water temp sensor connected to the glow plug timer relay. Could this be correct?

However

My other thought is that this sensor fulfills two functions, maybe it controls the glow plug times and also tells the EFI the water temperature.

So..

If I am convinced that the glow plug light is on for a shorter time, maybe it is telling the truth (I know its always hard to believe the instrumentation, and I work in instrumentation) as it sees it. It is 'reporting' that the engine is at virtually normal operating temperature, and so the engine starts with its 'warm engine' settings in the EFI, so it really doesn't want to drive off until its had 40 seconds or so of running (using the idle-up switch), after which it is fine and drives perfectly.

Also (out of curiosity)

What does the EFI do when the engine is started from cold (and all is working correctly). Do diesels need more fuel or is it that the timing changes in some way (if that causes a different effect).

Any ideas on any of the above points would be interesting. However, if it is this sensor, I would need a very special person who knew how the heck you change this part. It looks impossible. Is it an injector pipes off/starter out job?

Cheers... Rob.
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Old 27th August 2008, 22:16   #6
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Oh

And I use nomal from the pumps (very expensive) diesel.

Cheers.
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Old 27th August 2008, 22:22   #7
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IIRC, the preheat time decreases as ambient temperature increases. I'm thinking you're looking too far into a problem that may not be there, mine is always lumpy at start up.
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Old 27th August 2008, 22:38   #8
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Mine has the same symptom - 30 secs or so a bit rough and then sweet as a nut. No different last winter and definetly not worse in the winter.
Seems youre devoting a lot of time and effort to a very minor issue, after all the motors over 15 years old....
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Old 27th August 2008, 22:59   #9
ro80rob
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And just one more bit of info.

I followed NiftNevs instructions on getting the fault codes

See...

http://www.hiluxsurf.co.uk/forums/sh...130+fault+code

I got two flashes then after a period 8 flashes on the engine check light.#

By Nev's list, this tells me I have a faulty Turbo Boost pressure sensor (wherever that is) and a faulty Intake air temperature sensor.

As to taking this to the Nth degree, my niggle (and you are right, it is I suppose a niggle) is that I have spent a reasonable sum in having a new head, and before that was replaced, the thing ran perfectly, and I just kinda wanted that back. The thing does run perfectly but I wanted it to be the start and go car it was before.

However

If the fault codes do add up (certainly the air temp sensor), I can easily replace that and see how I go I guess. I really wasn't going to get to that water temp sensor was I? Its just too difficult to get at.

Cheers... Rob.
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Old 28th August 2008, 10:38   #10
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Check they're wired up right. They are reasonably close to each other, maybe they've got their wiring muddled up.

Does your turbo boost light come on ok?
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